Hey, may I ask you a question? Do you honestly believe that every child should be vaccinated despite the many contaminates including mercury and artificial chemical compounds with unknown side effects that they are being found to be contained in them. It’s a valid concern that some parents have. Another question I have is how is it logical that a person who has been vaccinated can catch virus from an unvaccinated person? Isn’t it more logical to assume that vaccinations aren’t quite as effective
You can ask it but I’m from a generation that got our vaccinations and never caught any of the diseases above or got mercury poisoning. So isn’t it more logical to assume it’s safer to vaccinate children instead of putting people with lowered immune systems at risk because you saw something on Dateline?
From what I understand, if enough people are not vaccinated, herd immunity disappears. So yes, it would likely start with the unvaccinated, including people who can’t have vaccines for other health reasons. But this also allows the bacteria to mutate and form new versions of the disease that the vaccines aren’t effective against. Then you run the risk of the vaccinated getting the disease and the cycle will repeat. Herd immunity is super fucking important.
pvivax can you weigh in on this?
Why, soyeahso yes I can!
First, unless there is a medical reason a child should not be vaccinated (such as an allergy to a compound in the vaccine), yes I think every child should be vaccinated!
Mutation of the pathogen can and has occurred, that is not the main reason for the vaccinated becoming sick.
So WHY do the vaccinated get sick?
An EXCELLENT question with a variety of answers.
- Some vaccines wear off with time. That is why you are supposed to get your tetanus (and pertussis aka whooping cough!) shot every 10 years or so. Think of it as a shirt, some shirts wear out quickly and have to be replaced over and over. Then there is that one shirt that you’ve had since like middle school and 14 years later it’s still going strong.
- Different vaccine formulation have different effectiveness. In the mid 1990s the USA switched from using whole cell pertussis vaccine to aceullar pertussis vaccines over concerns about safety.
Though the safety improvements are pretty much negligible from what I’ve seen.Those who had the whole cell vaccine are less likely to develop pertussis then those who had the acellular vaccine.
- Vaccines are designed to do different things. Some vaccines work so that should the person be infected the disease is milder/survivable (Those with the aceullar pertussis vaccine for example may still get sick but their illness won’t be nearly as bad as if they were unvaccinated) or protect the child long enough to be strong enough to survive it
- The Bacille de Calmette et Guérin (BCG) vaccine is a very good example of this. BCG vaccine is given to children to prevent tuberculosis. The BCG vaccine is really ineffective in adults and its effectiveness in children can be a crapshoot. HOWEVER it is very good at preventing miliary TB. And this gives children a chance to survive so that they may fight off the infection. (I’m not going to go into the pathogenesis of TB though it’s really interesting! Umm to me…)
But the BIGGEST reason is
It’s a numbers game.
What the fuck does that even mean pvivax?
It means you have to take into account
- The effectiveness of a vaccine, none of them 100%
- How many people around you are vaccinated? If everyone is vaccinated and you are one of the people where the vaccine didn’t ‘take’ your chances of getting sick are really low. Contrariwise if a LOT of people aren’t vaccinated then your chances increase.
- An imperfect analogy: think of it as being shot at. Someone shoots at you once and your bulletproof vest doesn’t work, you have a pretty good chance that the bullet will miss you and you’re good. But if you are shot at over and over and over, pretty soon there is good chance that you’re gonna get hit.
Now for an example!
Herd immunity (the percentage of people that are vaccinated in order to for the disease to not spread and protect the vulnerable) is 98%.
The MMR is about 97% effective, right? Let’s begin!
You have a school in Mississippi of 2000. Mississippi has very strict vaccination laws. Only medical exemptions are allowed. Therefore of the 2000 students, 1994 are vaccinated, a rate of 99.7%.
All of these students are equally exposed. If you are exposed to measles you have about 90% chance of getting measles. It is VERY infectious.
Rounded down, since you can’t have a fraction of a person: 5 of the unvaccinated children will get measles.
54 of the vaccinated children will be sick.
OMG VACCINES SUCK THE FUCK SCIENCE!
Wait, wait, wait a moment!
Look at the numbers again! 5 of the 6 unvaccinated children developed measles, that’s a 83%.
54 of 1994 children developed measles, that’s 2.7%
But when you look at that, what do more people see? The fact that 91% of measles cases were in the vaccinated, not that 1940 children were spared measles while only 1 non vaccinated person was spared infection.
Same scenario in Colorado where the MMR vaccination rate is 81.7%
366 vulnerable children
All exposed and 329 of unvaccinated children will be sick (90% infection rate) and 45 of the covered children will be sick, again a 2.7% infection rate. In this case however, only 12% of the sick children were vaccinated.
The more unvaccinated people walking around, the more reservoirs there are for disease and for the disease to linger and expose more people. If very few people are unvaccinated, the disease dies out quickly, there is nowhere for it to go. The more people that are unvaccinated, the more places there are for the disease to go, exposing more people to the virus.
Footnotes: 54 came from. Multiplying 1994 by .97 (the effectiveness of the MMR). 1-(1994*.97)=60. 60*.90(likelihood of getting measles once exposed)=54.
45 came from: 1634 by .997 (the effectiveness of the MMR). 1634-(1634*.97)=49 49*.90(likelihood of getting measles once exposed)=44.118 (round to 45)
Oh wow instant follow cause facts
Honest to god you have MORE CONTAMINANTS IN YOUR BREAKFAST EVERY DAY. No I am not kidding. Industrialized society baby.
You also eat a lot more of other people’s spit over the dinner table than most people realize. Which makes vaccines like, triple important.
But seriously, the contaminants most people complain about aren’t actually contaminants. And they most certainly aren’t in doses large enough to do all that much of anything. I get more mercury in my morning corn flakes. And that’s real mercury, not a derivative that has been driven out of vaccines because of over reactive parents who don’t understand how the scientific method works.
VACCINATE YOUR KIDS.
Exactly. If you’re freaking out so much about the chemicals in vaccines, why don’t you direct some of that outrage towards the fact that there is currently no limit for the allowable amount of arsenic in infant rice cereals.
Re: mercury. It’s…not actually mercury. What’s actually in the vaccine was a mercury compound. What does that mean? It means it’s joined with other atoms to create a whole NEW thing with whole NEW properties completely unlike mercury. It’s just like table salt. Sodium chloride. Sodium by itself as an atom reacts violently with water. I’m sure you’ve noticed that salt does not, in fact, explode in your mouth. That’s because it’s part of a completely different compound. Same thing with mercury compounds.
Oh, and guess what. Despite the fact that those compounds have never been shown to harm people, vaccine manufacturers have removed those compounds due to public pressure. Great, right? Except wrong. Those harmless compounds acted as a preservative agent, so now they have to use different preservatives that are more expensive or less effective which is making it much more difficult and expensive for people without easy access to a medical facility to get for their children.
Also regarding toxins, the harm of any toxin comes from a combination of amount and time. With a very high amount you don’t need a lot of time. For lower amounts you need a long exposure for it to build up because your body has an organ specifically designed to filter toxins out of your body. It’s called your liver. Think of it like drinking, because that’s exactly what’s happening with toxins building up in your body. You drink one beer over several hours it won’t have much effect. You drink steadily for several hours you will get drunk. You slam ten shots in ten minutes you will probably get alcohol poisoning. The point of this explanation is that there is nothing in vaccines in any sufficient quantity to harm you (and anything in sufficient quantity can harm you). I’m not even kidding when I say you eat more toxins and heavy metals in a piece of tuna than you would get in an entire series of vaccinations.
None of these are scary compounds with unknown side effects. They’re only scary and unknown because you don’t know what they mean and haven’t bothered to look them up or do any research outside a think-piece about The Study That Even The Author Admitted Was Completely Fabricated To Sell HIS OWN Vaccine by Not A Real Doctor of the school of I Slather Oregano Oil On My Children’s Feet To Prevent Pneumonia.
Vaccination is important!
Please vaccinate your kids. If people like me with shitty immune systems are powering through it, you fucking need to unless you medically can’t.